Governance Bites #71: executives as directors, with Simona Turin

In this episode, Mark Banicevich asks Simona Turin about working as an executive in one company, while working as a director in others. They discuss advantages and challenges, and Simona shares how she manages the workload. She also shares the best advice she has received as a director. 
Simona Turin is Chief Executive Officer of AcademyEX, succeeding Frances Valintine. She is presently a director of Fidelity Life, and two tech startups. Simona has an extensive background in information technology. She has started her own companies, and has held senior and executive roles in companies such as Spark, Air New Zealand, and Xero. She has worked in New Zealand and the United States.
#governance, #governancebites, #ceo, #boardroom, #boardcraft, #leadership

Transcript

0:00

Kia ora. My name is Simona Turin. I am currently a director on the Fidelity Life board, and Loaded, and Hectre. And I'm also CEO[Chief Executive Officer] at academyEX. We’re going to talk about the challenges and the benefits of having somebody who is both an executive and a director. Yes. Hi, welcome to Governance Bites. My name is Mark Banicevich, and as you just heard, today I’m really happy to spend time with Simona Turin. Simona, thank you very much for your time. Thank you. You have had an extensive executive career, essentially through a technology angle, right. You’ve worked at Xero, you’ve worked at Air New Zealand, you’re now CEO of academyEX, and you’re also, as you said a moment ago, on three boards, one of which is Fidelity Life. And I work in the life insurance industry. As somebody who is currently an executive and also a director(although on different companies), what advantages does that bring to the boardroom? I think what I have is real-time, pulse and insight into some of the challenges that execs and CEOs deal with, including our current economy and government changes, etc., but also some of the challenges of implementing AI [artificial intelligence] across an organisation, and what does it mean, and the governance around that. So, really understanding the CEO's and the executive team. An ability for me to work closely, from product teams, to marketing teams, to CEOs, kind of have these deep conversations when needed. Right. Okay. And you'd also, as you’re implying, have a good understanding of contemporary issues because you’re dealing with them in your executive roles. Yes, exactly. What challenges does it bring? You know, the CEO role is a full-time role. And then having three or four boards on top of that – what challenges does that bring to fitting things into your life? So, one, I’m making sure that I’m really carving out the board roles versus my CEO roles. Having a very strong executive team here at academyEX. But also, I’m able to really consume information from the board papers and the experience in a very efficient way. So, you know, how I read board papers – I sort of have a prioritisation. How I skim from them initially, then prioritise and go deep dive, etc. So, I’m very systematic about how I approach, one, information I take, but then I prepare with questions and take notes, etc. It’s about very effective time management, and in doing so, in particular, the method that you use to digest the information, being very effective and efficient in doing that. You’re also running academyEX, an organisation that’s around educating people in the technology sphere. Then, you go to the other extreme and you’re on the board of a life insurance company. And your education, or your role on the board isn’t just around reading the board papers, it’s about understanding what’s happening in the industry. How do you find time, and how do you keep on top of the trends and the issues that are happening in the industry outside of the boardroom while being a CEO? You see, it’s kind of my natural DNA. I am a curious person and I’m constantly learning, either through podcasts or reading a lot, but also hands-on. You know, I’ll be the one setting up my own GPT [Generative Pre-training Transformer] and trying things out, you know, when needed. Once in a while, I attend our courses, or we have here right now, as I mentioned to you before we started, the AI popup lab. So, the ability to work with small businesses and show them how to use AI tools. I tend to be kind of a balance reading a lot, listening to podcasts, and being always very curious, but also trying things myself. Right. Yeah, so I think I bring that different perspective, probably, towards a board. I’ll have to talk to you offline about creating your own GPT – that sounds very interesting. Now, is there any challenge that you find, you know, because in your executive role you’re very much in the detail of running the organisation, managing your executive team. And in the board, you’ve got to elevate yourself above that and be about questioning and overseeing the entity. Do you ever find any challenge about not getting into the detail when you’re in the boardroom, and how do you deal with that? It’s definitely sometimes a challenge. You know, you kind of have to catch yourself when you want to go into details, but I find that a great challenge from my personal growth, because I need to think about the questions I’m asking. It’s much more, at the board level, it’s about the questions you’re asking and the information you get, and how you have that more long-term, balance of long-term with execution. Because what you don’t want is to be way in the strategy, and it's sort of disconnected from the reality of execution. So, I think I kind of, thinking about that, versus, and bringing a little bit of my perspective of day-to-day execution. It’s definitely something I’m constantly developing – about how to ask the right questions, and think of that long-term and short-term balance. Right. Well, that actually raises the point that, you know, you’re in a boardroom where other people on the board will be, potentially, a little bit greyer in hair and be focused on director positions, and not potentially working directly in businesses anymore. So, just doing governance roles. Do you think there’s any disadvantage in having a portfolio of governance roles and not working in a company, versus the contemporary understanding

that you bring? I guess I’ll start with that question: 6:29

is there an advantage or, is there a disadvantage to being purely a director? So, first of all, I definitely learn a lot from the governance perspective from professional directors, and I really enjoy being part of the board. I think the risk that some of the professional directors that haven’t had an executive role for a number of years have,

is the question you asked me is: 6:57

how do you keep up with what’s going on? How do you understand the pain points that are happening deep in the company, kind of really relating that, and solutioning that, potentially, at the board level? Or even challenging the strategy. I think it requires a certain discipline on everyone's part, to try things themselves or be more hands-on. I would suspect then, that one of the ways you could overcome that, is by having some diversity in the boardroom. Yes. Having some experienced directors, as you say, means you're learning a lot from those experienced directors, but also having some younger people that are closer to their executive career, or still in their executive career, can bring that balance, to have the understanding of the contemporary issues. And probably a little bit, also, more empathy towards the executive team themselves and what they’re going through. Yes, absolutely. I think diversity at the board is something I’m really focused on. And so, when I join a board, I really want to understand, what value do I bring? What perspective they’re looking for me to bring. In order to really find that balance as a board together. Right, okay. One final question for you then: in your time as a director, what’s the best advice you’ve received from another director? There are, if I may, there are two, actually. Oh, absolutely, yeah. One is the word "we". Really focusing on the board as a team. How we work together. How do we collaborate. How do we align on strategy? Because, the last thing we want is, as a board to provide a direction to the executive team that is misaligned and really confusing. That’s the first one, really focus on that. The second one is not focusing on trivial things. It’s very easy, I think, for all of us in life and in business to focus on trivial things and forget the most impactful. So, when I enter the boardroom, I often think about, what is the most impactful decision or discussion we'll have today, at the board, that will create that impact for the executive team and the business. And that’s the key. That’s a really great piece of advice, and one that hasn’t arisen before. Because I always ask that question in these conversations, and there are some themes that are coming through that are quite common. And this is a new one. So thank you very much, Simona, that was really interesting. Thank you very much for your time today. Thank you. I'll look forward to catching up soon. And see you in the next episode. Thank you for the discussion.